9/26/2019 King Trumpet 600 Serial Numbers
. King Serial Number Ranges By Model Please note that there are a few with the 'King' name on them that were not made by the HN White Company:. Pre-1916 Kings are or Evette & Schaeffer stencils. The King Tempo is a stencil. The is a Kohlert or Amati stencil (probably Kohlert).
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The name is from King's association with SML: Strasser-Marigaux-Lemaire. The is an SML stencil. 'The New King' and 'Toneking' are model names for a series of horns. 'Recording King' was a model name for a series of stencil horns, mainly made by Model Start # End # 50,000 (1916) 110,000 (1929) 110,000 (1929) 180,000 (1935) 180,000 (1935) 511,000 (1975) 272,000 (1945) 800,000 (1998) 731,000 (1995) 736,000 (1996).
King Henderson White, founder of the HN White Company, started his business as a proprietor of a small repair shop in Cleveland, Ohio. With the help of Mr. Thomas King, a local trombone player, White developed his first trombone in 1894.
This was viewed in the market as a “revelation” to the music world due to its radically different bell, bore, and mouthpipe designs. Players loved the “King” trombone because the slide was smoother and lighter than any other.
These instruments gained immediate success with professionals including Al Pinard, the trombone soloist with Arthur Pryor’s Band. In 1909, the HN White Company developed a “Department of Acoustical Research” with the goal of developing higher quality instruments. As production grew, King became known for brass and woodwind instruments. From 1917-1918, the HN White Company was the sole provider of saxophones for the US military during World War I. In the 1920’s, King would even become the first US manufacturer of French horns. When Henderson died in 1940, control was taken over by Edna White, the first women executive officer in the male dominated music industry.
Under her leadership the company flourished. As most company’s production of brass products halted during World War II, Edna was able to secure two major government contracts making radar units and proximity fuses that kept the factories running. Coming out of the war, King instruments saw great popularity in the 40’s and 50’s with names like Tommy Dorsey, Harry James, Ziggy Elman, Julian “Cannonball” Adderley, and Charlie “The Bird” Parker. In 1951, the King 3B trombone was introduced and today is still the world’s top selling jazz trombone.
In 1964, production of King Instruments was moved to Eastlake, Ohio outside of Cleveland where they are still made to this day.
Hnwhite.com Trumpet & Cornet Serial Numbers Important facts to consider before you look up your serial number: King serial numbers are difficult to track due to the different variations of product changes and the lack of official records. All of the serial numbers listed on this page end when The H. White Company was sold in 1965. After 1965, all instruments were manufactured in Eastlake and engraved with 'King Musical Instruments.' Special Note: In the production years of 1893-1915 it is important to consider that production of trumpets and cornets stated slowly and that www.hnwhite.com is in the process of breaking these numbers down to better reflect 'true' numbers.
White Company did not have 'considerable' production until 1905. Special Note: If your instrument says 'The King' plus has a 'lion head' by the serial numbers you have the earliest and oldest manufactured (by H. White) between 1893 and 1915. Special Note: Any instrument that is stamped 'HN White Sole Agent' was imported to Cleveland around 1893-1905. Special Note: Please keep in mind that model changes might not have been made to all trumpets or cornets in the production line and may not be respective of the true age of your instrument.
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The following information is to be used as a guide to narrow down the year your instrument was produced. Special Note: was produced from 1940-1953.
Special Note: From 1925-1928 Sterling Silver Bells were added to: Trumpets, Cornets, Trombones, and Saxophones. For more information on Silver Bells.
-:: Author Message cmac3317 Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 517 Location: greensboro, nc Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject: King trumpet question. When did UMI take over? I've been having a lot of problems with my main Bb horn lately, so my grandfather (who played in the Coast Guard band for a long time) is giving me his old King Silver Flair. It was actually the horn I started on, and I'm looking forward to playing it again (I haven't seen it in at least 15 years). The SN is 524XXX, which, as far as I can tell, means it was made sometime between 1975 and 1980. When did UMI take over, and what exactly did that mean in terms of production?
Does anyone know what year that serial no. Would be from? I've looked online for information about this and can't seem to find much. Any info or links to info would be appreciated. 'eventually, the listeners move right along with the musicians.' -john coltrane silverhorn Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 660 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: I'm jealous of your Silver Flair. They are great horns!
I think UMI started around 1986 and the pre UMI silver flairs were top of the line King professional model trumpets. I don't think this was the case for silver flairs made post UMI. Sorry, I don't really know much else other than that but i'm sure you got yourself a pretty nice horn. Cmac3317 Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 517 Location: greensboro, nc Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: Yeah, from what I've read about pre-UMI Silver Flair horns, everyone that's played them loves them. I remember loving it when I played on it as a kid (and I always took good care of it). The only reason I switched to Bach trumpets was because my dad played too, and according to him when I was a kid, 'that's what you play.' Haha, typical.
I can't complain, I never had to pay for a trumpet growing up. I'm really excited to play it again, and I'm definitely keeping this horn in the family 'eventually, the listeners move right along with the musicians.' -john coltrane HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 1355 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: According to steinwaymusical.com UMI purchased King in 1983.
I own a mid 1970's Silver Flair made by King Musical Instruments in Eastlake, Ohio and it is a fine instrument. The horn has short throw valves which are just wonderful. I also have a UMI Silver Flair with the 'Dizzy' upturned bell. Many people are critical of the UMI horns and the UMI Silver Flair is a different horn than the H.N. White and King Musical Instruments Silver Flair (King Musical Instruments remained faithful to the H.N. White design). That being said, my experience with my UMI Silver Flair is that, although it is much different in its playing characteristics compared to my King Musical Instruments Silver Flair, it is a well playing instrument.
If you want to purchase a Silver Flair, my advice is to hold out for a King Musical Instruments (Eastlake, Ohio) version or, if you can find one, an H.N. White version. These are top-of-the-line professional grade instruments and the short throw valves (which the UMI horns don't have) make them even better. HERMOKIWI KingSilverSonic Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 1542 Location: Dubuque, Iowa Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: According to a revised website by one of the HN White descendents, the HN White company ceased to exist in 1965. So, there must have been a sale between 1965 and the purchase by UMI in 1983. Also, I just saw on the website that case parts are now for sale. I have a 1963 Symphony 20 case with a broken latch and they are selling new latches for $10.
Can't beat that. Also, my 1960/62 Silver Sonic cornet has the leather rotting off the case. Hopefully, they will be offering case repair in the future as they posted a picture of a prototype clarinet case that they built. Richard Lawler C7 Burbank Benge C Calicchio 1s/2 King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet Lawler flugelhorn Member: Bugles Across America HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 1355 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:09 am Post subject: KingSilverSonic wrote: According to a revised website by one of the HN White descendents, the HN White company ceased to exist in 1965. So, there must have been a sale between 1965 and the purchase by UMI in 1983. White Company was purchased by the King Musical Instruments Company in 1965. HERMOKIWI DaveH Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3840 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: Go to this website and read the H.
White Company history. The bottom of the second page speaks to the transition from H.N.White to King Musical Instruments in the mid 1960s. The downtown Cleveland location on Superior Avenue became outdated, and the company bought land in Eastlake, Ohio and moved production there in what appears to be about 1965.
The White family sold the company, and instruments produced from 1965 and thereafter bear the name King Musical Instruments, Eastlake, O. I have read that the buyer was an organization called the Seeburg Corporation, and/or a Mr. Nate Dolan, and/or a group of investors. I am not sure if all those are all one and the same persons, but it all seems to have occurred at about the same time. Some Google-ing will probably help with more specific details. Regardless, about 1965 is when the H.N White Company became King Musical Instruments.
UMI did not enter until the mid 1980s. It is my understanding that the original King Silver Flair, which was first introduced in 1964 by the H.
White Company, continued to retain the same design and specifications until it was discontinued in the late 1970s. There may have been a couple insignificant cosmetic changes, such as the inscription on the mouthpiece receiver. I have a King Musical Instruments Silver Flair at present - serial in the 45X,XXX range. It is the second one I have owned - the first being new in early 1966. Based on serial number lists and asking some questions, I consider that it was probably made in late 1969 or early 1970. The inscription on the mouthpiece receiver just says 'Flair' in script.
Both my present Flair and my previous Flair are identical in all details and design, including all aspects of the cases. So, I can say that no changes of any kind occurred between the introduction of the Silver Flair by H.N. White in 1964, and the instrument I currently own with the estimated date of manufacture as I mention. DaveH Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3840 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: Also, look at this link.a little more specific on the Seeburg merger which resulted in the H. White Company becoming King Musical Instruments. Palmfish New Member Joined: 09 Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: Awakening an old thread.I found this forum thanks to a google search for information about my trumpet. When I was in High School, I was 1st/solo trumpet in my school band and my parents bought me a second-hand trumpet as an early graduation present.
It was (is) a King (Seeburg) Silver Flair. I haven't played it in 30 years (when I graduated from HS) but I have kept it in storage all these years. Now my 11 year-old son is starting middle school and taking band.
He has decided to play the trumpet and so I pulled my old horn off the shelf in the garage and plan on letting him use it for school. So, I have found some information about HM White and Seeburg, and generally about my trumpet, but what I'm really wondering is if this horn is a good choice for my son to use to/from school. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, I'm guessing it's from the early 70's. It has 'Flair' engraved in script where the mouthpiece inserts, and on the center valve, it has a stamp that reads, 'King Musical Instruments Eastlake, O.' Beneath the stamp is the serial number which starts with 467. I can provide the whole serial number but I'm assuming people 'X' them out for some security reasons I'm unfamiliar with?
The trumpet is in very good condition with no dents or damage. All the parts (valves, slides, cork spit things, etc.) operate as they should. The case has chrome or stainless steel (I can't tell which) spring-loaded latches, and on the side there is a metal plate that reads, 'King Musical Instruments Division of the Seeburg Corporation' with a crown in the center and the word 'King' under the crown. The case is hard but all the rounded corners and the handle have stitched leather covering it.
I also have a Bach 7C mouthpiece that I used to use with it. Is this a good mouthpiece for an 11 year-old beginner or can someone recommend something better/more appropriate? I'm thinking that since I haven't touched it in 30 years, I might as well let him take it to school - at least he will get some use (and perhaps some pleasure) out of it. I just don't want him to feel too responsible if he were to damage something particularly special (besides the sentimental value I have attached to it). I would appreciate any information or advice about my trumpet.
Yourbrass Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 2560 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: Do yourself a favor, and go rent an instrument for your son to play as a beginner. It relieves him of responsibility for your irreplaceable instrument, and if he wants to switch to another instrument that's better to his liking, it will be easy. Palmfish New Member Joined: 09 Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: yourbrass wrote: Do yourself a favor, and go rent an instrument for your son to play as a beginner. It relieves him of responsibility for your irreplaceable instrument, and if he wants to switch to another instrument that's better to his liking, it will be easy. I didn't realize it held sentimental value to me until I pulled it out the other day and started thinking about it. I suppose it is irreplaceable. Palmfish New Member Joined: 09 Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: Well, I gave it more thought and decided that I will let my son use my Silver Flair for school after all.
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It certainly isn't doing anyone any good sitting on a shelf in the garage, and it's not particularly rare or valuable, so why not let him enjoy it (and me enjoy seeing him enjoy it)? We polished it up and lubricated all the moving parts and it's now back in playing shape! I had forgotten how pretty it was! We had a great time - I showed him how to tear it down, clean it, and how to oil the valves and slides. He's pretty excited about it.
I took a few pictures to share. Plankowner110 Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3358 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: In my many years teaching beginning band I've had students show up with a variety of professional instruments, mostly 1960s era: King Symphony Silver Sonic, King Master Silver Sonic cornet, King silver flair, Bach Strad 37, Bach Strad cornet, Olds Mendez, Martin Committee, Selmer K-Modified, Conn 38B Connstellation, Conn 8B Artist, Buffet R-13 clarinet, King 2B Silver Sonic trombone, King 3B trombone, Bach 42 trombone, and there may be some others I've forgotten. I always called the parents after school to advise them that placing a pro instrument in the hands of a fifth grader is very risky. A lot of kids are not real coordinated when it comes to handling instruments. A kid can be sitting in a chair and suddenly 'clank!' , the trumpet hits the deck and then makes an expensive trip to the repair shop. Kids are kids and anything can happen.
Student model trumpets are built more ruggedly and I've seen Olds Ambassador, Bundy, and King 600 trumpets 'take a licking and keep on ticking' as John Cameron Swayze used to say on the Timex commercials. It looks like you have a 1970s King Silver Flair in very good condition. As a retired school band director, I would suggest having your son start on a student model trumpet, then perhaps in seventh or eighth grade he could begin using the Silver Flair. The student model horn is not a waste of money because he can use it for marching band in high school. Even if your son babies the Silver Flair, it's the other students you have to worry about! The bell on a Silver Flair like yours is very lightweight and susceptible to dents, and the bore (tubing) size is rather large and requires a lot of air to fill up. (I played one for many years.) These are all considerations, but in the end it is your trumpet.
I wish your son every success in band. You will be so proud to see him perform in his first concert!!
Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631G flugel Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 6920 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: yourbrass wrote: Do yourself a favor, and go rent an instrument for your son to play as a beginner. It relieves him of responsibility for your irreplaceable instrument, and if he wants to switch to another instrument that's better to his liking, it will be easy. I was a responsible kid, but no way I should have had a pro-level horn as a fifth and sixth grader. By the time I got to 8th or 9th grade - well, sure. If you get him a good playing student horn (Nice Olds Ambassador?) that can take a few dings and keep going, then that King will still be in pristine condition when he's in later grades to appreciate it fully and take proper care of it. It might be fine, but well.
I teach beginner band. LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet Besson 709 Bb Trumpet Bach 184L Bb Cornet Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn palmfish New Member Joined: 09 Sep 2011 Posts: 4 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: Hmmm, you've given me something else to consider. I didn't realize that a student trumpet might be more rugged and easier to play than my Flair. I'll speak to my son about these things and start looking for a student trumpet. Thank you all.
King Trumpet 600 For Sale
Brian Moon Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 2785 Location: Detroit Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: If he is responsible no problem with him playing the Silver Flair. The student horn won't sound as good or be as easy to play. I had a Mt Vernon Bach in 4th grade.
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